Fabric Color

(original subject line:  “Wool types and Colors”)

Q:  Would a wedgewood-like blue, royal blue (like on the US flag), a bright medium blue, or a deep olive be period?

A#1:  I’ll try and give you a start:

Blues:
The only period bright blue clothing dye* I am aware of is woad.  It can produce a dark violet colour, a dark blue (some batches described as rather dull, others as brighter), and some fairly pale blues. There are some pictures at:
www.bleu-de-lectoure.com

As far as i can figure, you get basically the same shade, just lighter or darker. Some factors in the dying may produce some difference in the shade. I’m not entirely sure that royal blue lies in the light-dark spectrum of this shade, but then I’ve never worked with woad. My impression is that many modern blues are far too greenish (think of copper-sulfate solution etc), but again, you need an expert, and I’m decidedly not.  So my guess is for utter authenticity (of the type that will outclass half the room) possibly not the royal blue, and depends on the mid-blue. I’m thinking more Australian flag blue than American flag blue  🙂

Apparently Roger II of Sicily’s coronation dalmatic is woad, a lovely dark violety colour – mind you if you look at the embroidery and tablet weaving he was getting, you’ll know this was probably the most expensive fabric he could get his hands on :-).

Greens:
I just commented on this earlier in the week:
I’m told woad overdyed with weld (or was it the opposite overdying?) can make an olive colour. I don’t know if this exact shade was used in period though. Then again nor does anyone else.

Another thought of mine is that some of the recipes (possibly in the Innsbruck manuscript – 13th C) for blacks and nearly blacks, could turn out a very dark olive colour?

* azure=ground lappis lazuli for pigments, but surely not for clothing?
some copper salts are a lovely blue colour, (also fine for pigments) but I’m not sure if this can be used in clothing either (it may not stick, or may change colour)

~ Teffania Tukerton / Tiffany Brown
Message #888, March 9, 2003

A#2:  I lurk on this list, as I do mostly Viking and some 13th century, but enjoy reading and learning from you all, but I know some things about textiles, so I’ll try to respond as well.

For colors, you can get a very deep blue with woad. It depends on a lot of factors in the dyeing process as Teffania pointed out, but I have woad-dyed wool yarn that is what I would describe as almost Wedgewood. I have some dye samples from the Medieval Textiles Study Group that used woad, weld and madder to create an incredible range of colors – I’d scan them into files, but the shades would probably not come across correctly.
Hope this helps some.
Yours,
~ Margret / Becky Day
Message #890, March 10, 2003


Q#2:   How about a very, very deep forest or pine tree green?

A#1:  Conceivably a very dark woad overdyed with weld. Not a poor man’s garment.  I can think of several ways to chase this:

1)  Look for details about dyes used on 12th century garments – except there are many, and they aren’t well published. (woad, probably madder, weld)

2)  Look for dyes used both earlier and later and extrapolate (woad, madder weld)

3)  Ask modern dyers what colours are possible using dyes that might have been used in the 12th century (blue, green, red, olive?, teal?…)

4)  Textual references to a colour – but then you need to find out how they defined such a colour.

5)  Look at the colours of fragmentary textile colours of 12th C textiles (not just clothing, pouches, hangings, embroidery threads, lining of relic boxes etc. Remember that even the best colour photograph may be somewhat off in the colours, and even if you can see the article yourself, it may have faded, chemically changed colour or gotten dirty. (there seem to be a bit of range of colours of green visible in the few photos of textiles I’ve seen)

I doubt we can ever totally know, but we can get closer to the truths. I just try and justify my choice, and hope that each time my list of justifications is longer and more well researched, as I hope my garb to get more authentic with time)

Another interesting question (that I have no answer to) is not just what colours were available, but what colours were popular where and when. We probably need to dig up a 12th C city for that, as we don’t seem to have nearly enough extant garments to study statistically.

Thanks to everyone who wrote about spinning, weaving and dying – really interesting.

~ Teffania / Tiffany Brown
Message #894, March 10, 2003