I know that set-in sleeves are the ones which attach at the shoulder. What’s the term for sleeves which attach at the bicep?
Are any other sleeve types period for 12th C? (I’ve seen garments where the sleeves attach at the neck).
Does anyone have sources for which side of the sleeves had the seam? (Viking sleeves had seams running down the back over he elbow rather than from the armpit).
~ Aibell
Message #743, January 22, 2003
A set in sleeve not only attaches at the shoulder, but the top of the sleeve is curved and set into a curved cut out in the body, like on a business shirt.
Drop shoulder is the most common term I’ve heard for this those that attach at the bicep, though this can also apply to one wear a straight topped sleeve is attached at the shoulder, but the shoulders are very wide and drop to the bicep.
It’s hard to tell from the evidence we have [if other sleeve types were used in the 12th c]. I know there is an existing garment with the second type of drop sleeve I mentioned, which has a small gusset, but other than that there are very few existent examples to go on.
[As for which side of the sleeve had the seam], Again, it’s very hard to tell. The only existent examples I know of have the seam under the arm.
~ Rowena / Brenda Sibly
Message #746, January 22, 2003
As Rowena said, set in sleeves are sleeves with a rounded sleeve cap. If you cut a straight (flat, square) sleeve cap, and sew it to a shoulder seam which is cut right on the shoulder (ie on a side laced dress), because your body is not square, the seam will hang at somewhat of a diagonal to the body (or will have blousing bits under the arms). The set in sleeve was an innovation that meant that the sleeve shape followed your arm/shoulder shape entirely without any blousing.
I know that 14th century Scandinavian garments (see Maggie Forrest or Marc Carlson’s sites) had early set in sleeves (modern versions also shape the shoulder side of the sleeve as well as the arm side) also with gussets located behind the shoulder blade, and seams that ran along the arm through the elbow. In the medieval era without stretch fabrics this allowed more stretch, and prevented tearing of the tightly cut 14th Century upper sleeve.
I don’t know if this had been invented earlier. Some earlier garments (eg St Louis shirt) don’t show this kind of cutting. I’d really love to see a drafting plan for the 12th C holy roman emperor’s garments – sure they’re men’s garments, in the German style, not the Norman style, they may be of a more traditional ceremonial cut etc. I’ve got a good picture which shows a few seams, but they are hard to follow, someone needs to look at the actual garment. It definitely doesn’t look to have a set in sleeve, but you can’t tell where the sleeve seam is from the photo. I’m sure this would tell us something about late 12th C garment construction. (even though it has straight sleeves and no side lacing).
The only type of sleeves that attach at the neck I can think of is the modern style called raglan sleeve (mostly seem in jumpers, etc.). I’ve never seen this style in medieval garments, and although my knowledge of other periods is sketchy (so I could be wrong), I don’t think this style of sleeve existed in medieval Europe.
We can mostly only guess what type of sleeves was used in 12th C. our clues:
– We can see the development of set in sleeves in the 14C, so they are unlikely in the 12th C. (the silhouettes of pictures are also mostly inconsistent with this)
– Square sleeve ends existed before and after the 12th C, so this is probably what was used.
– Bands of decoration on the bicep are more likely to be hiding a seam, so perhaps in many cases the seam was there.
– Period artwork shows shoulder silhouettes that look remarkably like those of 11th C garments, so they probably are the same. So lacking evidence we try to make sleeves that are the closest to those of earlier periods.
~ Teffania / Tiffany Brown
Message #747, January 22, 2003
Just a thought to
interject, here—an OOP thought, for which I apologize, good gentles:
Colleen McCullough, probably recognized most
readily as the author of The Thorn
Birds, also wrote (a trilogy, I think), beginning with The First Man In Rome. Ms. McCullough seems to have researched Rome
the way and to the extent that Jean Auel has
researched human social development
during the Ice Age, and she states in her preface or her introduction to First Man that the Romans at that time
utilised in making tunics what we would
recognize as set-in sleeves. (No; no documentation
provided, that I recall.) She does provide a picture of the shape of the toga
and a description for correctly putting
it on, for anyone who might be interested in that, even though this list is 12th Century.
Lady Teffania, I wasn’t sure you were referring
to set-in sleeves in your post when you
said you didn’t know if this had been invented earlier, or to the triangular bit and the shoulder, and or the seam
running along the back of the arm, but I thought
I’d contribute this little tidbit,
anyway.
In service,
~ Yseult the Gentle
Message #765, January 29, 2003