Belt Pouch/Favor

Q:  I’d like to embroider for my lord (an 11th century Norman) a small pouch to wear on his belt, as a slightly more-period favor than a “tea-towel” that’s so often done, but I’m having problems coming up with a design for the actual bag that would be reasonably period…would something like an Elizabethan sweet bag do, or… something?

A#1:  I think I have photographs of some 12th century reliquary bags at home that do look somewhat like ‘bethan sweet bags. I’ll try to dig up the details tonight. I can’t remember seeing many, if any pouches on 11th century images, but lots of 13th century ones.
Must look!
~ Katine / Katherine Barich
Message #676, January 8, 2003

A#2:  There are also the “almoner” pouches that were used to keep alms in to throw to the poor on your way to church. I believe there are some fabulous embroidered ones –

I remember seeing a web page of someone’s almoner once — it was all gold background with some fantastically complex design on it. Anyone remember seeing it?

~ Aénor d’Anjou / Kirsten Wienand Vaughan
Message # 677, January 8, 2003

You mean this one? http://www.doctorbeer.com/joyce/emb/almpouch/almpouch.htm
There are some existing early embroidered seal bags out there, too.
~ Rowena / Belinda Sibly
Message #678, January 8, 2003

From the Atlantian Embriodery guild pages, these books might be helpful;

King, Donald, and Santina Levey. The Victoria & Albert Museum’s Textile Collection: Embroidery in Britain from 1200 to 1759. New York: 1993. ISBN 1-55859-652-6.
Photos and commentary on English embroideries, including a seal bag (1160-90) and a fragment depicting kings in scrolls (1220-50).

Budny, Mildred and Dominic Tweddle. “The Maaseik Embroideries,” in Anglo-Saxon England vol. 13, edited by Peter Clemoes. Cambridge: Cambridge University Press, 1984, pages 65-97.
Photos and description of the 8th-9th century Anglo-Saxon embroideries attributed to Sts. Harlindis and Relindis, now in Maaseik, Belgium

~ Rowena / Belinda Sibly
Message #679, January 8, 2003

I did remember the reliquary bags correctly and also came across a bag front that is identified 11th to 12th century!

The source for the images below is “Das Stickereiwerk” also known as “The Art of Embroidery” or “La Broderie” by Marie Schuette and Sigrid Muller Christensen. In SCA circles it is called the “embroidery bible”. It now goes for over $400 *if* you can find it on the net. So if you are in a bookstore and find a
cheaper copy, snap it up put it on ebay, that is, if you don’t keep it yourself! It is a definite recommendation for anyone interested in period embroidery. The only copy I could get to look at on ILL was in German, but it is pretty straightforward stuff, mostly plates.

The first image is the 11th/12th century purse front:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/12thcenturygarb/files/Katrine%27s%20picks/11thcenturybag.jpg

The notes, in German (my translation follows):

page 27

37. Tasche
Frankreich 11.-12. Jahrhundert
Sens, Domschat
20×14 cm
Vorderseite: Ritterliche Reiter. Leinengrund, vollstaendig bestickt mit Seide in Blau, Gruen, Rot und Gelb. Spaltstich. Die Rueckseite zeigt einen Adler mit Hasen.

Lit.: M. Symonds and L. Preece, Needlework through the Ages,

London 1928, S 171, plate XXIV (4)

37. Purse
France 11th – 12th century
Sens, Cathedral treasure
20 x 14 cm
Front side: knightly rider. Linen ground, completely embroidered with silk in blue, green, red and yellow. Splitstitch. The reverseside shows an eagle with rabbits.

Literature: M. Symods and L. Preece, Needlework through the Ages,
London 1928, page 171, plate XXIV (4)

The second image is of the front and back of the reliquary bag:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/12thcenturygarb/files/Katrine%27s%20picks/reliquarybag.jpg

page 30

74/75 Reliquienbeutel
Byzanz, 12. Jahrhundert
Nurnberg, Germanisches Nationalmuseum (KG 562)
14.8 x 12.5 cm
Voerderseite: Purpurvioletter SeidenKoeper mit Applikationene von vergoldeten Silberplaettchen, Flechtbandrosetten aus Sprialgold, gefassten Steinen und gesticktem Goldstreifen.
Rueckseite: Scharlacheroter Seidenkoeper mit Goldstickerei in versenkter Anlegetechnik, konturiert mit jetzt brauner Seide in Stielstich.

Lit.: S. Muller-Christensen, Sakral Gewaender des Mittelalters, Ausstellungs-Katalog,
Munchen 1955, S. 27, Nr. 43

74/75 Reliquary Bag
Byzantium 12th century
Nurnberg, German National Museum (KG 562)
14.8 x 12.5 cm

Front side: purple violet silk twill with application of gilded silver platelets, intertwined ribbon rosettes of spiraled gold, fastened stones and embroidered gold stripes.
Reverseside: Scarlet red silk twill with gold embroidery in sunken couched stitch technique, contoured with what is now brown silk in outline stitch.

Literature: S. Muller-Christense, Sacred Garments of the Middle Ages, Exhibition catalog,
Munich, 1955, page 27, number 43.

Good luck with your project!

~ Katrine / Katherine Barich
Message #682, January 8, 2003

There is also the Chelles reliquary, which is shown in Dress in the Middle Ages. It dates to the 12th century and has a distinctly romantic theme (knight and lady). It’s a small square pouch with the knight and lady (she has a small animal of some kind on a leash) embroidered on it, dating to approximately 1170-80. I suspect that it was not originally a reliquary pouch, from the subject matter.

A very rough sketch of the embroidered design can be found here:
http://jauncourt.i8.com/images/pip1.jpg – link broken

The pouch itself is not much larger than the design.

The book can [be found on Amazon.com]

The Chelles reliquary and a sketch of an early tunic cut are about all this book has to offer for our period. I apologize for not having a page or figure number, but I cannot make them out in my notes.

Maarguerie de Jauncourt / Maura Folsom
Message #683, January 8, 2003

Another good favor idea is an embroidered glove. I did one of these for my champion.  I handmade a linen glove and embroidered my badge on it. it looks great on his belt and is a period appropriate token as well.
~ Aénor d’Anjou / Kirsten Wienand Vaughan
Message #690, January 9, 2003